========
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: COMP.SYS.CBM: General FAQ, v3.1 Part 6/9
From: brain@mail.msen.com (Jim Brain)
Date: 13 Aug 1996 00:54:08 -0400


X-Posted-By: YPost, version 0.08


Archive-name: cbm-main-faq.3.1.p6
Comp-answers-archive-name: commodore/main-faq/part6
News-answers-archive-name: commodore/main-faq/part6
Comp-sys-cbm-archive-name: main-faq/part6
Version: 3.1
Last-modified: 1996/08/12
		       	

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  Table of Contents (for this file)
  ---------------------------------

   7.  Exchanging Data
   7.1.  How do I exchange data among Commodore 8-bit machines?
   7.2.  How do I exchange data between an IBM(tm) and my Commodore?
   7.3.  How do I exchange data between an Amiga and my Commodore?
   7.4.  Ho data between a Macintosh(tm) and my Commodore?
   7.5.  How do I exchange data between an Atari ST(tm) and my Commodore?
   7.6.  How do I exchange data between a UNIX(tm) machine and my Commodore?
   7.7.  Are there other ways to exchange data becomputers?

   8.  Operating Systems
   8.1.  What Operating Systems are available?
   8.2.  What is GEOS?
   8.3.  What is UNIX?
   8.4.  What is CP/M

   9.  Demonstrations
   9.1.  Just what is a demonstration, or demo?
   9.2.  What does NTSC and PAL mean?
   9.3.  Where do I get demos?
   9.4.  What is a demo competition?
   9.5   What does FLI, DYCP, etc. mean?
   
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  

   7.  Exchanging Data
   
  At some point in time it becomes necessary to move data from one machine to
  another.   Sometimes this is easy, sometimes it is not.  This section will
| help you decide which way of transferring files is best.  For those who have
+ WWW access, additional information is at 
  
+ http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/transfer/
   
   
   7.1.  How do I exchange data among Commodore 8-bit machines?
   
  You can exchange data between Commodore machines in a number of ways, but
  each way requires an exchange medium, whether it be tape, disk, modem, or
  null modem.  

  To transfer files between any Commodore machines besides the Plus/4
  series that have datasette ports, the file can be save to tape and
  exchanged.  The Plus/4 series tape drives read and write data in a format
  not compantible with asystem.

  To transfer files between any Commodore computers with disk drives, you
  need to find a drive that can be connected to either computer, or two
  drives with compatible disk formats.  Some examples of two drive setups:

  2031   1541
  4040   1541     (Read but not write compatible_
  8050   8250     (can't use back side of 8250 disk)
  8050   SFD1001  (can't use back side of SFD1001 disk)
  1551   1541
  1571   1541     (can't use back of 1571 disk)

  Modems can be used to exchange the information, if both computers can
  use modems.  Just perform a dowload on one end, and an upload on the 
  other.  Null modems can make this job simpler, by removing the data->
  telephone line step performed in a modem.

  With all of these methods, data files should transmit fine, but program
  file written in ML will most likely not work, and BASIC programs will
  usually fail is  machine with a differing version of BASIC.

   
   7.2.  How do I exchange data between an IBM(tm) and my Commodore?
   
  Commodore computers use a disk format which is not compatible with the
  disk formats of other computers.  However, some programs exist which allow
  you to read foreign, specifically MS-DOS, di that in general to
  do this, you must have either a 1571 or 1581 disk drive.  The 1541 cannot
  read MS-DOS disks without some hardware modifications.

  Big Blue Reader

  A commercial package, The Big Blue Reader, from SOGWAP software, runs on
  either a 64 or a 128, will read and write MS-DOS format 3.5" (with a 1581)
  and 5.21571) disks.

  Crosslink

  Other freely distributable programs exist to read and write 5.25" MS-DOS
  disks.  One such program is Crosslink, (available on ccnga.uwaterloo.ca
  although it is limited to reading files 43K in size or  there are a few CP/M MS-DOS reading utilities that work in the C128's CP/M
  mode.

  RUN Reader

  RUN magazine (4/89 to 6/89) published a series of programs that would use
  1571/1581 drives to transfer MS-DOS files to and from a Co limited in file size handling ~43-44K.

  Little Red Reader

  Issues 4 and 5 of C= Hacking magazine presented a program called Little
  Red Reader for the 128 that will copy files to and from MS-DOS floppy
  disks.  The menu-drwo disk drives to work, where the
  one containing the MS-DOS disk must be a 1571 or 1581 (or compatiblram does not buffer data internally, so the only size restriction on
  copying is the capacity of the target disk.  The programSCII/
  ASCII conversion but will work only with the root directories of MS-DOS
  disks.  The program is also available via FTP and is FREE.

  1541-dos

  To read and write to MS-DOS disks with 1541 disk drives you have to make a
  small hardware modification. The 1541-dos package contains instructions on
  how to modify Commodore 1541 and Oceanic OC-118/OC-118N disk drives, and
  programs to read disks in MS-DOS format and to write to disks in a format
  that can be read by MS.  The newest version of the package is
  available via anonymous ftp on ftp.funet.fi in /pub/cbm/documents/1541-dos.

  x1541

  To read CBM disks on an IBM, you can use the program x1541 available on
  ccnga.uwaterloo.ca in /pub/cbm/emulatihis program uses the PC parallel
  port to emulate a C= serial port.  You need to have a unique cable built to
  make the connection.  The cable is connected to a 1541 drive.
  The documentation has a schematic for the cable.

+ If you would rather not build the X1541 cable, the following individual
+ offers them fcost:

+ Paul MacArthur  
+ attn: X1541 Cable Offer
+ 24 Central Street
+ Braintree, MA  02184
  

  22DSK

  If you own a Commodore 1581, there is a PC program which can read
  1581 formatted disks.  The latest version is 1.4.2 and is available aakland.edu/Simtel/msdos/diskutil/22dsk142.zip.  Note that this
  program will only handle CP/M formatted disks.
  
  C64-Connect

  A very fast way of transferring one file programs between the Commodore and PC
  is C64-Connect.  All youble between user port of C64 
  and PC's parallel printer port (LPT). Loading of a 50 KB program takes about 
  3.0 seconds and transferring the same program from C64 to PC takes 4.5 
  seconds.  (Times were measured on a P0, NTSC units will see
  slighly faster times)  This program is a boon for every C64 user that has 
  only a cassette drive, as the loader program needed fori the C64 is shorter
  than most cassette turbos and aboyt 45 times faster.

  C64-Connect stores C64 progra PRG format, so
  you can easily convert them to various file formats used by emulators.
  The latesConnect is 0.99. You can get it from
  file://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/transfer/CBM-to-PC/
  Email Ville Muikkula at vmuikku@raahenet.ratol.fi for more information.

  PC2VIC
  
  This package enables you to send programs (and other data) to your VIC20.
  The data is sent from the PC:s printerport to the VIC20:s userport, which 
  makes the transfer rather fast.
  
  adam.bergstrom@um.erisoftrom
  Storgatan 92,2
  903 33 Umea
  SWEDEN

+ Anadisk

+ Anadisk will allow you to read, write, and edit sectors of 1581 disks in
+ an IBM PC floppy drive.  The current version is 2.07 and has the filename
+tarCommander 

+ StarCommander (V0.71 open beta) 
+ Joe Foster/STA (Author)
+ sta@ludens.elte.hu (Internet Contact)	     
+ Norton-Commander lookalike. Us541 Cable. Transfers to and from up to
+ four connected CBM-Drives with normal/ turbo/warp mode. Support for
+ emulator-diskimages (.D64 ...) and some CBM-archives (LNX, ZipCode2 via
+ external programs) Availiable at all common CBM-FTP-sites (/emulator)

+ Trans64 

+ Trans64 (V1.24) 
+ Bernhard Schwall (Author)
+ schwall@informernet Contact)
+ Uses X1541/Disk64 cable. Transfers to and from CBM-Drives/Disk-images/
+ Tape-images/virtual disks/IBM-PC with normal/fast/turbo mode. Window 
+ driven GUIf GEOS-VLIR files (icons, graphics, text)
+ and CBM files. DiskMonitor and Charsets for CBM-reading included.
+ Availiable at all common CBM-FTP-sites (/emulator)
 
  There are no programs that will read a 5.25" Commodore disk in a 5.25" PC
  d I exchange data between an Amiga and my Commodore?
   
  TransNib

  The TransNib 1.00 package for Amiga allows transferring files 
  C64<->Amiga at up to 60000 bps. It uses a parallel<->user port cable that 
  currently transfers 4bits at a time. Uses 2-way handshaking. 2 versions 
  of the 64software are in the archive. Requires a disk drive. 1541 
  fastloader compatible. The Amiga side software can be run from shell of 
  WB, multitasks fine and has nice simple GUI.

  For more information, get the archive from ftp.wustl.edu,
  /systems/amiga/aminet/misc/emu/TransNib100.lha
  
  PData

  The PData 3.51 package for the Amiga allows transfer of both binary and
  text files between the C64/C128 and the Amiga.  It's about 25 times faster
  than a null modem cable, and it even leaves your Amiga serial port free for
  other applications.
  
  You can transfer up to 255 files in both directions in multitransfer mode.
  The program works with an cable attached between the 64 user port and the
  Amiga parallel port.  The A can be run from any Amiga, 
  although Kickstart v37.175 (v2.04) is required to utilize all functions.
  
  for more information, get the archive at:
  ftp://ftp.doc.ic.ac.uk/computing/systems/amiga/mods/chip/NemeSIDs-Extra.lzh
   
  prlink
  ink is a program that uses the X1541 cable to transfer data from the
  Commodore to the Amiga It is at:
  ftp://pub/cbm/transfer/CBM-to-PC/prlink-0.8.0a.lha

+ Over5

+ Over5 (successor to OverFour) is a program that uses a standard 3 wire null
+ modem cable to transfer files between the Amiga and the 64/128.  No special
+ serial port cartridges are needed.  Only a simple votga econverter for the
+ 64/128 user port to generate RS-232 level voltage is needed. The code
+ is at:

+ http://www.stacken.kth.se/~tlr/computing/over5.html

+ FEATURES:

+ * filecopy with wildcards      !!IMPROVED!!
+ * builtin diskturbo
+ * Read/Write memory            !!IMPROVED!!
+ * Read/Write file
+ * Read directory
+ * Send disk command
+ * Read disk status
+ * do RUN/SYS
+ * both PAL and NTSC versions
+ * the Amiga as harddisk server !!IMPROVED!!
+ * fastformat with verify
+ * Read/Write raw disk          !!IMPROVED!!
+ * ZIPCODE archive depacking
+ * ZIPCODE archive packing
+ * timeout handling on the c64
+ * source     !!NEW!!
+ * protocol documentation       !!NEW!!
 
+ The author:

+ Daniel Kahlin <tlr@stacken.kth.setr
+ s-113 46 Stockholm
+ Sweden
+ 08-34 84 73 (+468348473) (Phone)
 
   
   7.4.  How do I exchange data between a Macintosh(tm) and my Commodore?
   
   
   7.5.  How do I exchange data between an Atari ST(tm) and my Commodore?
   
  Atari ST can read and write 3.5" DD disks formatted for PC. You need to use
  TOS 1.4 or higher to format.  Using Big Blue Reader to write 3.5" PC
  format on CBM will permit transfer.

  ST also has RS-232 port, so one can transfer data by using RS-232 adaptor
  on the C64 and some terminal/handshaking programs to control the transfer.

   
   7.6.  How do I exchange data between a UNIX(tm) machine and my Commodore?
   
  One way is to use PC and then ftp to UNIX, unless the UNIX runs on a PC.
  Some Sparctations have drives with MSDOS filesystem emulation, but it has
  problems even with Atari/DOS disks.

  cbmfs

  cbmfs is a read-only filesystem driver which allows transparent reading of
  1581 disks under Linux.  It is installed as a loadable kernel module and
  allows mounting Commodore 1581 disks in a standard 3.5" floppy drive, and
  1541 disk images (.D64 files) copied to any floppy disk.  PETSCII to ASCII
  conversion can be automatically performed.  Partitions on 1581 disks are
  accessed as subdirectories.  The publically-released version will be
  available at <ftp://ftp.wimsey.com/pub/linux/incoming/cbmfs-1.0.tar.gz>
  and at <ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Filesystems/cbmfs-1.0.tar.gz>.

  prlink
  
  prlink is a program that uses the X1541 cable to transferLinux (or any UNIX).  It is at:
  ftp://pub/cbm/transfer/CBM-to-PC/

   
   7.7.  Are there other ways to exchange data between computers?
   
  If you are transferring data to another computer (e.g. a PC) in the same
  room, or if you are lucky enough to have a terminal server line near your
  64/128(more and more colleges are putting such beasts in dorm rooms), you
  be able to connect your serial port directly to another computer.  If you
  have a terminal server port, all you need is a C= RS232 to standard RS232
  adapter (see 9.8).  If you are connecting to another, PC, you will also
  need a null modem.  A null modem is a simple device that you can buy for
  less than $10.  It typically is a small box with a 25-pin (or 9-pin) RS232
  connector on either side.  Put it somewhere in the line between your C= and
  the other PC.
  

   8.  Operating Systems

  Most Commodore users aren't aware that each machine has an operating
  system.  Since all Commodore systems come complete with a built in 
  operating system and BASIC programming language, the need for an
  operating system is minimized.  However, Commodore's internal OS is
  not always the right tool for the job, so alternate OS systems are
  available for the CBM.
  
   
   8.1.  What Operating Systems are available?
  
  Well, Commodore computers come with a standard operating system
  built in ROM. They also contain a built in BASIC interpreter which is
  normally activated after switching on or resetting the computer.
  If you want alternativions to replace the existing OS, there are a few
  that may suit your needs.  GEOS is the best known, but a number of people
  have made UNIX-like operating system replacements for the Commodore 64 and
  128.  Also, on the 128, CP/M is available out-of-the-box. (see below for
  details on different OS types.)

  
   8.2.  What is GEOS?
  
  GEOS stands for Graphical Environment Operating System.  It is a Graphical
face (GUI) style of OS, and it brings to the Commodore 64 and 128
  integrated applications.  The graphical nature of GEOS allows applications
  to use fonts of any size, bitmaps, and menus and mice.  The system was
  Designed by Berkeley Softworks, now GEOWorks, and is supported now by CMD.
  There are a number of graphical style GEOS applications, like GEOWrite,
lish, GEOTerm, etc.  The system is very easy to use, and
  is very fast, even when compared to other GUIs like Windows and OS/2.

  GEOS can make very effective use of a Ram Expansion Unit, a RAMDrive or
  RAMLink, or GEORam.  GEOS allows you to configure your REU to appear just
  like another (very fast) disk drive, although it does not keep its contents
  when you turn your computer off.  So, any GEOS software that works off of
  a disk will work out of your REU.  Since GEOS is very disk-intensive, this
  greatly improves the performance of your system.  Indeed, some firm GEOS
  adherents have said that they would not use GEOS without a RAM device of
  some sort.

  GEOS will not work with a stock 1700.  To have a RAM drive, in GEOS, you
  must have at least 256K of expansion.  Thanks to patches developed by Jim
  Collette(configure2.1), GEOS also supports 1 Meg, 1.5 Meg, and 2 Meg REUs.

  GEOS files are structured differently from standard Commodore files.  They
  cannot be uploaded or downloaded directly.  Before you upload a GEOS file,
  use the freeware GEOS application convert2.5 by W.C. Coleman to convert it
  to Commodore format.  When you download a GEOS file, you must use the same
  program to convert it to GEOS format.  By convention, GEOS format files
  converted to standard Commodore format have a .cvt on the end; however,
  many converted GEOS files just have the same name as the original GEOS file.
  As a rule of thumb, any GEOS file you download, regardless of the extension,
  must be converted to GEOS format with convert2.5.

  If you download an archive of GEOS files (e.g. a .arc or .sda file
  containing GEOS files), you must first dissolve the archive using your C64
  or C128 in native mode.  The consill be converted
  GEOS files, whether or not they have the .cvt extension.  Each of these
  constituents (which are GEOS files) must be individually converted to GEOS
  format with convert2.5.

  If you need some help with GEOS or any aspect of it, I refer you to Myles
  Skinner at mskinner@julian.uwo.ca.  He is one of many people who use GEOS
  every day and can be of help.

  
   8.3.  What is UNIX?
  
  UNIX is an OS that was developed by Bell Laboratories in the 1960's and
  is now used on many workstations.  It is a multi-user, multi-process
  OS that has extensive support from the educational and commercial
  communities.  Internet and Usenet are primarily a collection of UNIX
  workstations networked together.  The UNIX-like OS replacements for
  Commodore computers mainly emulate the shell of UNIX, where programs are
  run by merely typing in their name.  Other aspects of UNIX, such as
  multiple processes are supported by some of the offering, which are:

       Asterix. -   A UNIX-Look-and-feel Shell replacement for 64

       UNIX128. -   A small implementation of UNIX for the 128.

       ACE 128/64.- A new offering which borrows the UNIX shell look for 64
|                   and 128.  It is available at:
                    .uwaterloo.ca/pub/cbm/os/ace/
       
+      LUnix -      A new offering which attempts an implementation of UNIX
+                   for the 64.  It is available at:
|                   ftp://rpool1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/~etk10217/proj.htm

+      CS/A65 -     Andre Fachat's multitasking OS.  At:
+                   http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~fachat/csa/

+      CXII -       http://www.cynapses.com/ry/cx2home.html

  
   8.4.  What is CP/M
  
  CP/M stands for Control Program for Microcomputers and is available on
  every Commodore 128.  There is also a CP/M cartridge available for the
  Commodore 64, but it cannot read CP/M disks, just 1541 formatted disks, and
  there are questions concerning its ability to work with all revisions
  of the Commodore 64.  CP/M was very popular in the early eighties before
  MS-DOS became popular.  It requires a Z-80 microprocessor, which the 128
  has, or an 8080 processor, and a disk drive capable of reading CP/M disks,
  such as the 1571.  If you don't need to read existing CP/M formatted disks,
  then a 1541 could also be used.  This operating system is the one that
  MS-DOS was modeled after, so there are a lot of similarities.  If you are
  interested in using CP/M as your primary OS, then please check out the
  newsgroup comp.os.cpm, as they have more info on the current events
  concerning CP/M.

  The version of CP/M used on the 128 is 3.0, commonly called CP/M Plus.
  It is compatible with earlier versions of CP/M but adds some new features.
  The copy of CP/M 3.0 that ships with the 128 was specially modified to allow
  use of the features of the 128, such as the Ram Expansion Unit as a RAM
  disk, the SID chip, and the extra RAM of the 128.

  In the March 1994 issue of dieHard, Mike Gordillo gave an overview of the
  CP/M operating system.  It is one of many such articles that should be read
  by anyone new to CP/M.
  

   9.  Demonstrations
   
  Very few Commodore enthusiasts have never seen a demonstration, yet
  many aren't really sure what one is.  Well, since these programs are still
  alive and strong in the 1990's, we need to answer some of their mysteries
  (but not all of them, as their job is to amaze).
  
   
   9.1.  Just what is a demonstration, or demo?
  
  A demonstration, or "demo" as they are known, is a piece of software that
  is designed to provoke a visually and aurally pleasing effect fmputer.  This usually involves large amounts of multi-colored graphics,
  complex synthesized or digitized sounds, and orchestrated movement of
  shapes or color schemes on the screen.  Demos originated as introductions
  to "cracked" games, games in which the copy protection had been rendered
  useless.  As time wore on, the standard abilities of the computer were all
  used in demos, and rival "cracker" teams raced to bring out the best demo.
  In the search for the "best demo", demo authors, or "coders", tried to
  maximize the use of the computer in a demo program.  Also, they exploited
  any undocumanted feature the computer could provide.  Since most of the
  circuits in the Commodore computers were multi-purpose, experienced coders
  could use some of their features in non-standard ways. Some examples:

  Removing the top and bottom border.
  Removing the side borders.
  Placing text (text mapped sprites) in the open borders.
  More than 8 sprites on screen at once.
  pseudo interlacing to create illusion of up to 640*400 resolution.

  Since the commercial game market has shrunk significantly over the past
  few years, and since demos are sometimes too involved to be classified
  as a game into, many demos are packaged so they can "stand-on-their-own".
  Users can download a demo, load it up, and run it like any other program.

  As demos got more involved, some coders produced cutting-edge technology
  demos intended to "one-up" their rival coders, while others made artistic,
  but less technically challenging demos for arts sake.  Either way, it is
  important to note that demos are not usually interactive.  They are meant to
  be viewed and listened to.  Demos are mostly passive entertainment, and
  appreciation for the effects generated in a demo increases as one
  realizes the normal limitations of the Commodore line of computers.
  So, sit back, load up a demo, run it, and enjoy.

  
   9.2.  What does NTSC and PAL mean?
  
  These two acronyms refer to the type of TV broadcasting signals used
  to create the video picture on your TV or monitor. American, Japanese, and
  Canadians use NTSC, while a good part of Europe uses PAL.  This usually
  makes no difference to programs, as the C64 and C128 in C64 mode always
  present 200 lines of pixels to the video display.  However, since the PAL
  standard allows more lines to be displayed on the screen and has a slower
  screen refresh time, the PAL computer has more time before screen
  refreshes to perform other operations, and also can put more information
  on the screen in some cases, since there are more lines in a PAL dislpay.
  Since demos use highly optimized timing and complex routines to perform
  the effects, some demos can only be written for PAL machines.  Sometimes,
  a demo is written for a PAL machine, but it can be made to run on an
  NTSC machine.  Demos that can run on both machines without any code
  modification are called regular demos, those that can only run on PAL
  machines are PAL demos, PAL demos that have been modified to run on NTSC
  machines are called NTSC-fixed demos, and NTSC demos that have been
  modified to run on PAL machines (rare) are called PAL-fixed demos.
  
  The mean difference between NTSC and PAL is that the mathematical
  description of NTSC will fit on one page while PAL takes a phone-book
  style book full of integral/Fourier/Laplace equations. 

  From a demo coder's point of view, the difference lies in how many cycles
  you get per scan line and how many scanlines there are:

  VIC type     cycles per line      lines per screen  frame rate
  
  old NTSC-M   64                   262               60 Hz
  new NTSC-M   65                   263               60 Hz
  all PAL-B    63                   312               50 Hz
  
   9.3.  Where do I get demos?
  
  There is a whole site full of  demos.  They are located in the
  /pub/cbm/c64/demos directory of nic.funet.fi.  See section 5.4 for
  directions on how to transfer files from this site.

  
   9.4.  What is a demo competition?
  
  This is a "convention" where people from the demo "scene" get tolly held in Europe, although other countries do have them.
  Coders get together and exhibit previously unreleased  demos in a competition
  where the best ones are ranked according to a subjective scoring system.
  At the end of the competition, the demos are released to the public.  To
  make things somewhat fair, demos are judged according to computer type, so
  Amiga demos do not get judged alongside 64 demos.  These competitions are
  usually held in conjunction with music or art competitions.

  Most demo competitions are held within Europe due to copyright laws and
  stuff.

  Previous pardies (demos parties, or competitions) held were:-

  Event                     Location        Date
  -----                     --------        ----
  Radwar Pardy              Germany         January 1994
  Pardy III                 Denmark         Decemeber 1993
  Chormance & Faces Pardy   Hungary         December 1993
  Elysium Pardy             Poland          Decemeber 1993
  Entropy Pardy             Holland         June 1993
  Assembley '93 Pardy       Finland         May 1993
  The Computer Crossroads   Sweden          April 1993
  Radwar Pardy              Germany         January 1993

  Duration 1993-1994 (March 1994)

  Most pardies are held when aildays.

  The point of a copy pardy is to go there with your computer, meet other
  computer friends from other groups and swap different warez, meet other
  members of your group and using the combined skills from the members
  (graphics/coding/musix/spreading), write a demo before the closing time for
  the pardy so it can get voted on. The winner comes away with about 300
  Kronar or similar.

  
   9.5   What does FLI, DYCP, etc. mean?

  Writing a successful demo often means tweaking routines and hardware
  to reach beyond the normal capabilities of a computer system.  Such is
  partially why such programs are called "demos".  To tweak the system and
  hardware, programmers utilize undefined routines, use hardware in non-
  standard ways, and create tming loops that force events to happen at
  certain intervals.  When these components are composed together, they
  create an effect, either via video or sound.  The effect is known by a
  name or phrase.  Some phrases are known by their acronyms, as the two in 
| the heading are known.  FLI is Flexible Line Interlace, while DYCP
| is Differentiar Position.  It is beyond the scope of the FAQ to
  discuss all the effect names, but a somewhat complete list can be found
  at http://www.msen.com/~brain/pub/demo-acronyms.txt on WWW or as file
  demo-acronyms.txt on Jim Brain's MAILSERV server (See Sectionation on mailservers.)
  



-- 
Jim Brain, Embedded System Designer, Brain Innovations, Inc. (BII)(offline sig)
j.brain@ieee.org   "Above views DO reflect my employer, since I'm my employer"
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, VR, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!  -Me-
<a href=http://www.msen.com/~brain/>Jim Brain: BII, VR, and CBM info</a>
